2016

主题

4万

帖子

4万

积分

论坛名人

Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

认证:

勋章:

  • 元老勋章

    注册时间9年以上并且发帖数大于100 [详情]

  • 认证表主

    腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

    63389 浏览 / 13 回复
    国外专业网站对北京立体陀飞轮的测评及看法
    楼主
    发表于北京 2015-5-8 11:40:11 | 只看该作者 |倒序浏览
    本帖最后由 老面 于 2015-5-8 11:42 编辑

    2014-04-01

    转一篇文章,值得一看。

    国外对北京手表厂无极陀飞轮的测评。

    感谢表友:流动的艺术,将原文译成中文便于大家观赏!{:4_85:}

    我们平时看到的听到的多是表厂自己的宣传,还有国内媒体的正面评价,和赞扬以及不够专业的评论。

    此时看看国外使用什么样的目光来看国产高端腕表,他们得到了什么样的结论,文中对中国制表业的一些看法和言辞虽然激烈但也属实。这样的评论也许更客观,更公正,更真实,更理性。

    我们不妄自菲薄,也不骄傲自大,面对赞扬要保持冷静,面对疑问和鄙夷更要虚心,踏实的从基础做起。

    英文不好的表友(比如我)用百度或者谷歌的翻译功能完全可以看懂这篇文章。

    Beijing Watch Factory Wu Ji “Infinite Universe” Bi-Axial Tourbillon Watch Hands-On

    Chinese watchmaking is nothing new, nor is it unsophisticated. All of this is evidenced by the 2013 Wu Ji watch by the Beijing Watch Factory. "Wu Ji" apparently translates from Mandarin to "Infinite Universe" in English, a lofty title typical of Chinese naming practices. That said, the Beijing Watch Factory should be proud. Once again they've broken ground for their country by producing what they claim is the most complicated watch produced on mainland China. What impressee more is the brand itself, and their rather atypically refined sense of composure.
    China isn't known for creative watch design. China is known for production, copying, and diligence - which applies to their own watch industry as well. From a production and consumption standpoint, China is the most important place in the world for watches. All but the most exclusive of Swiss watch brands rely heavily on China for the production of watch parts - such as cases and straps - even when they contain "Swisade" movements. Native Chinese brands are neverthelesarred by national qualities which oppose many of the qualities that allow for beautiful watchmaking. Ask the Swiss how they make watches and they use the term "slow" and "careful" a lot. China's industrial power comes from the fact that they aren't slow and often not careful. So why do we expect them to make good watches the Swiss way? The simple answer is that they don't.

    Although, these generalities aren't rules. Not all Chinese watches exhibit confusing and awkward designs that that woefully seek to emulate European aesthetics. There are, however, excellent examples of Chinese watchmakers who emulate the Swiss rather well. This is both the strength and weakness of the Chinese watch industry. To be considered "good" by traditional standards, they need to still copy the West. To be bad, they need only to copy poorly. No matter what China is still copying, my hope at least - and there are positive signs of this - is that with China's serious and sincere love of watches we will eventually see unique design in both the outside and inside of their domestically made watches.

    While there are many elements of Swiss watch design seen in the Wu Ji, it is a pleasantly original and interesting timepiece. While elements such as overall aesthetic in many of Beijing Watch Factory's designs are inherently European, they do however take many artistic liberties in producing unique products. The Wu Ji is a glowing and ambitious example of what they can produce. Even though Chinese watch manufacturing is huge, those that can produce credible mechanical watches are still limited and few watch lovers would claim that Chinese-made mechanical movements are excellent. I am not an expert on all Chinese movements, but I do know that most of them are copies of Swisovements. The mechanism in the Infinite Universe clearly isn't. While an inspection of the movement makes it clear that this is a Chinese creation, I found many of the unique elements quite interesting. What I love about this watch is how the complications are much more than skin deep. What you see is only half of what you get. First and foremost, I'll explain how you even tell the time.


    It would be wrong to look at this watch dial and assume you can read the time as you would on most other round-dialed watches. In fact only the upper half of the dial is used to read the time. A shortened scale for all 12 hours is placed on the top half of the dial, and both the hour and minute hand have retrograde mechanisms that have them jump back to the starting point when necessary. Thiakes the dial extremely confusing at first if you don't know what you are looking at. I was playing with it to set the time and noticed the hands were jumping around wildly. "Is the watch broken?" I wondered until I realized what I was seeing. The large bi-axial tourbillon at the bottom of the dial is so tall that the watch maker decided he never wanted the hands to go over it. The double retrograde system for the hour and minute hand is designed to prevent the hands from ever accidentally touching it. The benefit is a watch with such a tourbillon system that does not require a "bubble" in the crystal. At 17.2mm thick, the watch could certainly have been thicker.
    The tourbillon element of the Wu Ji is quite amusing. What you have is a bi-axial tourbillon that is basically a smaller tourbillon inside of a larger tourbillon. Then you have a traditional flying tourbillon as a separate element on the dial. I've never before seen a watch with two different types of tourbillons on the dial. It is interesting, to say the least. The traditional tourbillon has a pleasant bird-shaped bridge which I enjoy. In addition to the tourbillons and the unique time telling system, the Wu Ji watch also contains a retrograde date indicator as well as a power reserve indicator. The manually wound movement holds just over 50 hours of power reserve. On the rear of the watch is an additional complication; a moon phase indicator, with a blue enameled disc.

    Claimed accuracy for the caliber TB09 movement isn't bad. Beijing Watch Factory says the Wu Ji is accurate to about plus or minus 10 seconds a day. That isn't quite chronometric standards, but probably in line with many Swiss tourbillons. Other Chinese movements can often be off by auch as a minute a day. So all things being considered, 10 seconds a day for this type of complex movement is pretty good.

    What the watch cannot escape from is China's ubiquitous use of machine-decorated parts. Timepieces of this quality in Switzerland exhibit a high level of hands-on attention. Of course the Wu Ji was hand-assembled, but like its lower-priced brethren, it uses parts that have machine polishes. Skilled watch lovers, for example, can always spot "Chinese Gen stripes" as oppose to the more refined Cotes de Geneve lines on Swiss watches. The Chinese watch industry has all the money and motivation to up their ante a bit when it comes to decoration, but it is possible it just isn't in their DNA. Traditional Swiss watch making goes to great and careful lengths to ensure that movement aesthetics are perfect. They use special woods to polish metals and age-old techniques that perhaps never quite made their way over to China. The real culprit however is probably sheer time. Watch movement decoration is the most time consuming part of high-end watch making. To keep prices and production schedules reasonable, I simply don't think that China can handle the intense slowness of the Swiss.

    On the wrist, the Beijing Watch Factory Wu Ji is 44mm wide and sits large thanks to its wide lugs. The case comes in either 18k rose gold or platinum. The inspiration for the design is clearly Greubel Forsey-ish, but it looks decent and I am happy that it isn't just something simple and round. Nothing like a boring perfectly round case to destroy an otherwise unique wearing experience. The Infinite Universe is conservative, but has learned that boring isn't the same thing. The level of uniquenesixed with traditional looks is an art that Europeans have learned well, and the Wu Ji is the latest to replicate that. Does it succeed? It really depends on who you ask.

    Beijing Watch Factory has succeeded in impressing me - a lot. It has also succeeding in producing something that is both unique and interesting, but is also the type of thing that even the most snobbish watch lovers will take notice of. Complex Chinese watches are here and here to stay, and they are getting better each year. Are they alternatives to the more expensive Swiss stock? Yes, but they aren't outright replacements. Swiss watches will probably always beat Chinese watches when it comes to sheer refinement and attention to detail. More and more I am convinced that this is caused by a fundamental difference in culture and values. It isn't a matter of better or worse, but what goes into the production of tiny mechanical art. Having said that, the Chinese will always beat the Swiss when it comes to price.

    What makes the high-end Chinese watch industry unique is that they are trying to provide something that the current culture is not set up to do as well as the Europeans, and to me that is an admirable feat. In a huge way it is ironic as the Chinese are the post ardent appreciators of Swiss watch making craftsmanship. Perhaps because it is so counter to their own culture's production values. Pride however is strong in both cultures, and brands like the Beijing Watch Factory thrive on being able to be Chinese and be the best at what they do. As it stands we will continue to watch as the Chinese develop new and interesting movements, and no longer consider them as a a mere novelty not worth the investment of real watch lover money. And an investment the Wu Ji is. Given the complexity the watch it is arguably well priced, but still lofty, going for between 460,000 - 520,000 Chinese Yuan. That is about $75,000 - $85,000.









     原创《钟表茶馆》内容丰富,不断更新,欢迎表友交流,聊表

    https://bbs.xbiao.com/229/129141.html


    不卖表,不修表,不中介,不提供购表渠道,钟表知识(非钟表商业知识),钟表文化的义务传播者。

    2016

    主题

    4万

    帖子

    4万

    积分

    论坛名人

    Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

    认证:

    勋章:

    • 元老勋章

      注册时间9年以上并且发帖数大于100 [详情]

    • 认证表主

      腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

      沙发
       楼主| 发表于北京 2015-5-8 11:40:45 | 只看该作者
      北京手表厂“无极”——“无限宇宙”双轴陀飞轮腕表

      中国的制表业既无设计上的新意也无制作上的精良,这一切在2013年北京手表厂的“无极”腕表上可见一斑。无极从汉语里翻译过来对应的英文解释就是无限宇宙的意思,这是个典型的中国式命名方法。它意味着北京手表厂应该引以为豪,因为它们再度为这个国家的制表行业取得突破,生产了它们所谓的迄今为止中国大陆最复杂的腕表。当然,所传递更多的则是该腕表品牌的含义和它们所定义的非典型的精致沉着。

      中国和它们的手表工业不知道什么是真正的创意性手表设计,它们只知道生产、抄袭和用功。从产品和消费的立场来看,中国是世界手表行业最重要的地方。所有并且包括很多瑞士专有手表品牌,虽然它们的机芯标有Swisade的字样,但仍旧十分依赖中国,因为中国生产了很多手表部件,例如机壳和皮带。本土的中国手表品牌受限,因为中国人的素质和生产一块好手表需要的素质完全相反。如果你问瑞士人他们怎么做手表,他们会说慢工出细活(“慢”和“仔细”)。中国的工业力量有这样一个事实,即他们不慢,并且常常也不仔细。这样我们又怎么希望他们能用瑞士的思路生产出出手表呢。他们肯定不能。

      尽管这些概论不是法则。并不是所有的中国手表都展示出了在他们不幸的追求模仿欧洲审美失败下可怜和尴尬的设计。有一些杰出的制表师在模仿瑞士方面就做得很好。这既是中国制表行业的软肋也是他们的优势。要在传统审美标准下被接受为好,他们需要模仿西方。不好,他们只需要模仿的不好一点。不管怎样,中国始终在抄袭。我只希望,并且现在看来有了这方面积极的迹象,在中国人严肃而真诚对手表的热爱下,他们最后能设计出无论是外在还是内在都独特的手表。

       原创《钟表茶馆》内容丰富,不断更新,欢迎表友交流,聊表

      https://bbs.xbiao.com/229/129141.html


      不卖表,不修表,不中介,不提供购表渠道,钟表知识(非钟表商业知识),钟表文化的义务传播者。

      2016

      主题

      4万

      帖子

      4万

      积分

      论坛名人

      Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

      认证:

      勋章:

      • 元老勋章

        注册时间9年以上并且发帖数大于100 [详情]

      • 认证表主

        腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

        板凳
         楼主| 发表于北京 2015-5-8 11:43:22 | 只看该作者
        我们能在这块无极腕表中看到很多瑞士腕表设计元素,这是一块令人愉快的原始而有趣的计时器;我们也能在这块腕表上看到很多北京手表厂设计元素,殊如整体美感,是的固有欧洲式,然而无可否认,在制作独特的产品时我们需要很多艺术自由。无极是一个他们能制造的辉煌而宏伟的例子。尽管中国的手表制造业非常大,但是能制造可靠的机械手表的厂家很少,很少有手表爱好者会宣称中国制造的机械手表机芯是优秀的。我并不是一个关于中国所有手表机芯的专家,但是我知道它们中的大多数是仿造的瑞士机芯。但是无限宇宙的机芯显然不是,通过对机芯的检查,我们更清楚的知道这是属于中国的创造,我发现有很多的独特元素非常有意思。我对这块手表的喜欢并不是仅仅的限于浅薄。你看到的只是你得到的一半而已。首先,我会解释怎么样读取时间。


        看到这块表的表盘,如果你认为你能如许多满刻度的表盘那样读取时间,那你就错了。实际上只有表盘的上部分是用来读时间的。表盘上部分显示的是十二小时,无论是时针还是分针,都能在需要的时候跳行到起始位置。当你首次看到表盘的时候你会非常困惑。在我调时间的时候,我发现手表的指针跳跃的非常厉害,难道腕表坏了吗,直到我明白了所看到的一切之前我都这样想。位于表盘下端的双轴陀飞轮是如此大,以至于手表的设计者不希望指针能越过它。时针和分针的双重逆跳系统就是为了防止指针意外的触碰到它。这样做的好处就是这样的一个陀飞轮系统不需要在玻璃上制造凸泡。

        无极手表的陀飞轮系统非常有趣。这个双轴陀飞轮就是一个小点的陀飞轮置于一个大些的陀飞轮内。然后你有一个传统的飞行陀飞轮作为单独元素在表盘上。以前我从没见到过表盘上有两种不同陀飞轮的手表。至少,它很有趣。传统的陀飞轮有个我很喜欢的鸟形桥。除了陀飞轮和独特的时间显示外,无极手表有一个逆跳的日期显示和动力储存显示。另外手动上弦机芯拥有50小时的动力储存,手表背面有个额外的蓝色珐琅盘月相显示。

         原创《钟表茶馆》内容丰富,不断更新,欢迎表友交流,聊表

        https://bbs.xbiao.com/229/129141.html


        不卖表,不修表,不中介,不提供购表渠道,钟表知识(非钟表商业知识),钟表文化的义务传播者。

        2016

        主题

        4万

        帖子

        4万

        积分

        论坛名人

        Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13

        认证:

        勋章:

        • 元老勋章

          注册时间9年以上并且发帖数大于100 [详情]

        • 认证表主

          腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

          地板
           楼主| 发表于北京 2015-5-8 11:43:41 | 只看该作者
          径TB09的机芯精确度不差。北京手表厂对外公布的无极手表的精度是每天正负10秒左右。这并达不到精密计时的标准,但是已经达到了很多瑞士陀飞轮手表的水平。(Other Chinese movements can often be off by auch as a minute a day)。殊多因素考虑进来,10秒每天的误差还是相当好的。

          这块手表无法避免的具有中国手表普遍的机芯打磨装饰的短板。这种质量的计时器在瑞典会获得密切的关注。当然,无极是手工组装的,但是和它价格相对低廉的同胞相比,它的部件是经过机械抛光的。资深的腕表爱好者可以辨认出中国的日内瓦条纹以及更加精密的瑞士手表上的日内瓦波纹。对于机芯的打磨装饰,中国手表业倾尽了他们所有的钱财和激情来增加赌注,可惜事实似乎是他们的基因中似乎并不含有这项才能。传统的瑞士制表有详细的要求来确保他们的机芯在审美上达到完美。他们用特殊的木头来抛光金属,并且那些古老的技术或许从来都不曾流传到中国。但这一切真正的罪魁祸首或许仅仅只是时间的问题。机芯的打磨装饰是高端手表制造中最花时间的部分。为了保持价格和生产进度的合理性,我并不认为中国能够处理这个严峻的时间缓慢问题。

          因为它大的表耳,北京手表厂的无极手表表径是44毫米。手表材质有18k玫瑰金和铂金两种选择。设计灵感是明显的高珀富斯风格,但是看起来大方得体,我很高兴它并非一些简单的圆的东西,因为没什么比一个无聊的浑圆更能破坏穿着的美好体验。无限宇宙腕表整体偏向保守,但是无聊是另外一回事。在传统外表下的独特性是一门艺术,这个欧洲人学得很好,无极手表是对这个概念最新最新的复制阐述。这种复制成功了吗,恐怕要取决于你问的是谁了。

          北京手表厂成功的给我留下了深刻的印象。它成功的制成了一块独特而有趣,并且即使最势利的手表爱好者也会注意的东西。复杂的中国手表在这里被留了下来,并且越来越好。它能够取代更加昂贵的瑞士手表吗?是的,但不能完全取代。瑞士手表可能在纯粹的精致和对细节的关注上会胜过中国手表。或许更多的我倾向于认为这是由于文化和价值观的差异造成的。这不是更好或更坏的事情,而是一项关乎微机械的艺术。正如有句话说的,中国手表总是可以在价格上打败瑞士手表。

          让中国高端手表产业独特的是,他们正在尝试提供一些欧洲人和目前文化所没有设法去做的东西,对我来说这是一项值得钦佩的技艺。从某些角度来说这具有反讽性,因为中国式瑞士制表技艺的后来热心鉴赏者。或许正是因为这和他们文化的价值相反。这一期无论是对于中国文化文化还是对于北京手表厂这个起初作为中国人的腕表成长起来,并且在自己行业做到最好品牌来说都是巨大的骄傲。照着现在情况,我们继续期待着中国人能够开发出新的有趣的机芯,使腕表爱好者并不认为它们仅仅只是新奇廉价的物品而不值得花钱投入购买。对无极的投入就是个例子,鉴于该手表的复杂性和可能的优惠价格,但是依旧不便宜,460000到520000人民币之间,即75000到85000美元。

           原创《钟表茶馆》内容丰富,不断更新,欢迎表友交流,聊表

          https://bbs.xbiao.com/229/129141.html


          不卖表,不修表,不中介,不提供购表渠道,钟表知识(非钟表商业知识),钟表文化的义务传播者。

          0

          主题

          16

          帖子

          231

          积分

          实习新人

          Rank: 3Rank: 3

            5#
            发表于陕西汉中 2015-5-9 19:50:20 | 只看该作者
            好漂亮的表,太令人震撼了!
            XI~

            2

            主题

            19

            帖子

            41

            积分

            注册新人

            Rank: 1

              6#
              发表于湖北武汉 2015-5-17 23:54:35 [来自iPhone客户端] | 只看该作者
              支持国表陀飞轮,有尝试才有突破,有突破才能铸就辉煌

              11

              主题

              1686

              帖子

              1万

              积分

              白银表友

              Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

              认证:

              勋章:

              • 认证表主

                腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

                7#
                发表于江苏南京 2017-5-8 15:36:23 | 只看该作者
                这块儿挺漂亮的

                6

                主题

                336

                帖子

                2260

                积分

                中级表友

                Rank: 6Rank: 6

                认证:

                勋章:

                • 认证表主

                  腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

                  8#
                  发表于广东东莞 2017-5-18 19:38:21 [来自iPhone客户端] | 只看该作者
                  多谢楼主和老白的翻译 涨见识了

                  6

                  主题

                  336

                  帖子

                  2260

                  积分

                  中级表友

                  Rank: 6Rank: 6

                  认证:

                  勋章:

                  • 认证表主

                    腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

                    9#
                    发表于广东东莞 2017-5-18 19:40:27 [来自iPhone客户端] | 只看该作者
                    多谢老面版主 楼上的回复出差错了

                    28

                    主题

                    216

                    帖子

                    681

                    积分

                    转正新人

                    Rank: 4

                    认证:

                    勋章:

                    • 认证表主

                      腕表之家注册会员都可以申请 [详情]

                      10#
                      发表于江苏苏州 2017-6-7 11:33:04 | 只看该作者
                      有一点说得一针见血,国人不愿意花时间来打磨机芯。还有个搞笑的,这敏感词审查也太机械了,连SWISS  MADE也会被吃掉中间的 “诶死”和“诶木”变成了SWISADE
                      您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

                      分享到 更多
                      返回顶部